Santigold Unlocks The Secrets To Self-Exploration
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I've been a fan of Santigold since I was in high school, and what I've always appreciated about her musical work is that she provided a safe space for myself and other Black friends to have that shared experience. I remember when she first burst on the scene with her 2008 debut album Santogold, she shattered all of those expectations and showcased a new side of creativity that I've always wanted to express. To see someone like herseld do it was important for myself and people growing up during that time.
Below, Santigold unveils the purpose behind continuing to challenge her artistry, as her fourth album Spirituals (released last September) led to the launches of her "Noble Champions" podcast, Spirituals tea line and an upcoming memoir.
What I’ve always appreciated about your work was how you showcased the multifaceted nature of Black women.
Obviously, there's shared experiences and all kinds of things that can make us the same. But ultimately, we're each an individual—everybody on this planet. I think it's a really dangerous thing when you start putting people in boxes and limiting the definitions of who they are, what they can do, what's expected of them and what they can achieve, whether the box is a Black person, whether the box is a woman, whether the box is what gender is. I mean, there's so many boxes. And we humans don't really fit in the boxes unless we choose to.
That's the thing—I don't think many people realize that it's a choice. I think for some of us, it urgently feels it has to be a choice when we don't feel like the boxes work for us, right? I think that we're finally at a time where people are starting to feel supported in speaking out about the fact that these pre-fabricated boxes don't fucking work for most of us. And we start punching at the confines of the walls and breaking through because we don't want to stay in these boxes. We want to be free. I think true freedom is the ability to exist in a way that supports your being. We've been not free for so long, in so many ways. I think people are just fed up with it and wanting to get a chance to be free to be who they want to be. Part of my journey has been for a long time following that mission for myself.
That’s the thing—I don’t think many people realize that it’s a choice. I think that we’re finally at a time where people are starting to feel supported in speaking out about the fact that these prefabricated boxes don’t f**king work for most of us. We start punching at the confines of the walls and breaking through because we don’t want to stay in these boxes. We want to be free. I think true freedom is the ability to exist in a way that supports your being. We’ve been not free for so long, in so many ways. I think people are just fed up with it. Part of my journey has been for a long time following that mission for myself.
Santigold SANTIGOLD PHOTO BY FRANK OCKENFELS
I feel with each album that you've released, you don't give a f**k basically. You're just very honest and raw. Whatever it is in your heart, you're not afraid to speak it out on record. There are other artists who do this as well, but it's always a refresher when an artist doesn't have that manufactured framework to their music and just releasing what makes them makes them feel a weight lifted. But I think that's especially true in the Spirituals album, just in the name alone. You may agree with this as well, but going back to slavery spirituals were a way to really tap into that freedom when it was never given to you. I'm just wondering if that part of it played a bit of a role in the album’s creation.
The idea of spirituals, when you're talking about traditional negro spirituals, or our songs that–like you said–were able to make people feel free through music when their circumstances weren't joyous. Making them feel that they can rise above something that they literally couldn't move beyond physically. Through the music, they were able to transcend. And that's what the making of Spirituals did for me. At the time [when I recorded it], it was just really challenging in so many ways, whether it was the pandemic, the protests, the wildfires, being a mother during lockdown of small children. Making this music was a way for me to transcend my environment and reconnect with the higher part of myself. That's why I named it Spirituals because even though the songs aren't in any way traditional negros spirituals, it was serving the same purpose.
The artist with her kids. SPIRITUALS TEA PHOTO COURTESY OF SANTIGOLD
Did you unlock a new side of yourself throughout the making of the record?
Yeah, I'm always learning about myself. As a human being, I believe that's what we're here for. I think if you're not constantly learning about yourself, then you're missing a huge opportunity. Because I do believe that's the point of life. But particularly as an artist, a writer and just a thinker, I'm always trying to see how I can find inspiration from any circumstance or create from experience. Just in surviving these past few years, I had to learn a lot. And what I did learn has put me out on the other side of where I was.
I do feel like I made some huge steps, particularly on honoring myself and my needs and my values. Now I've started to cut out things that don't serve me. I think that that's a really important thing to learn, particularly as a Black woman. Because we're often taught, whether it's directly or just through generations, of what Black women have had to endure and the state of survival that most of us live in all the time. We've been taught to put ourselves and our needs last, and to make sure that we get it done and take care of our families and just put your head down and get the work done and block off your feelings. I've been really working to free myself from that and I think that helped me come to the place that I came to after making this record. When it came to touring, it looked like a shit show—
Sorry to cut you off. But I remember reading your Instagram post about it and it was refreshing to have someone of your stature just lay it all out there and say this is a reason why the touring industry is shit, and we need to fix it. It definitely sparked a lot of conversation, but I'm hoping that there's actual action initiated after that.
There's gonna have to be. The music ecosystem is actually not functioning properly. So it's going to fall apart in many ways and I'm glad that it helped start the conversation. I've done a lot of interviews since then on different angles of it. I even spoke at Georgetown at a conference with legislators and lobbyists and artists. People are really trying to figure out where to go from here. So at least that's where we can start, right? If people are thinking and talking and discussing, that's a start. I mean, beyond music, we've got a problem in this country with the way monopolies are ruining the economy.
People are struggling across the board and we're gonna have to change the system a bit for it to really benefit all of us. Workers in particular, because that's really what artists are. We're workers just like everyone else. I think that what happens is social media makes it seem like we're this other larger-than-life thing when it’s just part of our business. That doesn't serve us. Actually, it causes us to go above and beyond what's humanly possible.
The artists at the highest levels are burning out at [rates] you've never seen before, trying to keep up with these images that they put up themselves, trying to keep up with putting out a record every year and touring constantly. Nobody can do that. And then on other levels, artists aren't able to make it work or pay their bills. So it's just not working for anybody. But yet social media dictates that we had to keep singing and dancing! Even some of the more entitled fans are like, “Shut up and sing!”. So anyway, to answer your question, I think that the process of going through all those years and the work that I did with making this record got me to a place where I could just… Look, it's not like I walked away because I had a plan. I walked away, because this ain't the plan. (laughs) Do you know what I mean? Sometimes the other door doesn't open until you close it, even if you don't know what other door that is. This wasn’t serving me.
Santigold SANTIGOLD PHOTO BY FRANK OCKENFELS
It's funny, because that infamous clip from TLC’s Behind The Music episode recently resurfaced on my Twitter feed. They were on top of the world in the ‘90s but here was Left Eye left breaking down all the math of how much they're getting paid. It's so fascinating to me, how we're still having that conversation in 2023.
Yeah, it's a hard conversation, because there's so many reasons. But I think that people really like to think that if they know your name, you're rich and you're totally fine. They have no idea how any of it works. We're in a weird culture where—I really do believe part of it is the problem is how we view "celebrity" in this country. We like to build people up, and then tear them the fuck down. We love every morsel of the fall. If you can't view people as human beings and if you can't see commonality, then you can't even have that conversation. So we have a lot of work to do.
The brand-new tea. SPIRITUALS TEA PHOTO COURTESY OF SANTIGOLD
Listening to this album takes me on an emotional roller coaster just to find your peace. At this stage, what makes Santi White happy?
Many things make me happy. I love creating, honestly. Hanging out with my kids, being in nature—I just finished a hike this morning and that made me happy. I was listening to music in the car the other day and I just had this realization how happy music makes me. Music, just the existence of it and listening to it. I don't think people realize how important music is. It can transform you. It was pouring here for weeks, which is amazing because we've been in a drought and we need it. I know it's been very disruptive in certain parts of California, but it's pretty great to have the rain. But it's dark and it's gloomy. So I turned on some music and I was like, “Oh my God, the power of music is insane.” And people take it for granted now because you don't pay for it. It's free. It's everywhere. Music is hugely transformative.
Just to be transparent, this is a new role for me and I'm feeling so nervous and overwhelmed about it. Then one of Rihanna’s “Love Without Tragedy/Mother Mary” from her Unapologetic album came on shuffle and I just started crying. I wasn't even listening to it intentionally. But to have that play in the moment and just relate to the lyrics, that's why I love music.
That's the thing. It's unfortunate that people don't support artists—particularly in this country—in the way that they should, because we need music. It's part of our sustenance in life, you know what I mean? It keeps us grounded mentally, it’s healing, it's therapeutic. It's all these things. Yet schools take it out of the curriculum and don't fund it. And artists don't get paid. It's just ridiculous and shows you that our values are screwed up. So anyway, music makes me happy. Nature makes me happy. Creating makes me tremendously happy. My children make me happy. I mean, I could go on and on. But there's many things that make me unhappy too, especially since I'm very sensitive. That's why I try not to read the news too much. I like to know what's going on but it's so much negativity. So luckily, I am able to find joy in many things because if you just look up to too far up, it's just it's an avalanche!
The Spirituals tea line SANTIGOLD PHOTO BY FRANK OCKENFELS
You're continuing to challenge yourself creatively with your Noble Champions podcast that launched last fall. The themes that you're talking about, they're all conversations that we have with our friends. Like, I talk to my girlfriends all the time about generational trauma and the commodification of Black music. So, I appreciate that you and all of the guests are putting all these conversations that we may have at the salons and the barber shops onto a platform to be heard by all. I think it's very important.
I love doing the podcast because these are conversations that I was having. And I love the guests that I had because you can invite somebody and don't even know how deep they can get into the subject. There's so much more to be said, there's so much more to be talked about. Sometimes you want to hear about this topic all the time, but you never hear about this angle. So the podcast was inspired by me having conversations with friends and artists and talking about some of the things that I was working through when I was making the record. I was like, “We should we should talk about this publicly.”
I was surprised at how much I love the podcast because I never did anything like that before. But to be honest, I did do something like that in the ‘90s when those things didn't even exist. (laughs) When I was a teenager, I would have friends over and we would have discussions. We would watch some Afrocentric history video and then discuss it. I was that teenager to be like, “Hey, guys, Would you all like to come over?” I wanted all the cool kids to come over to have serious talks about issues. But that was what teenagers were like in the ‘90s. That was when people like A Tribe Called Quest was coming out and rap was often really talking about stuff and people wanted to know more about history. Not just actual, history about themselves, but music history. You couldn't call yourself a music person if you didn't know all this music history. So culture has changed so much. Nobody knows anything and they don't really care. (laughs)
Santigold SANTIGOLD PHOTO BY FRANK OCKENFELS
So I want to talk about your tea line as well. My family is Jamaican so I've been growing up drinking tea morning, noon and night. Tea is just part of our culture.
But what kind of tea did you grow up drinking?
Peppermint tea, ginger tea, tumeric, cerasee. What else? Dandelion root. Just more organic and herb-centric ones.
I was in Jamaica last summer. With COVID and everything, everyone's like, “You just need vervain.” And I figured out that is basically a verbena. But they swear by what it does for COVID. It's so interesting and I love cultures that did not lose the connection to the benefits of nature and earth and how we can use it to heal or soothe ourselves. So tea has always been something that I just love so much. I love everything that smells good, body stuff and all that stuff.
Do you have a tea routine that maybe inspired you making the line?
I don't know if I have a routine, but if I'm going into my space creatively, I definitely am a tea drinker. I don't love caffeine so much. But I do try to drink my Yaupon tea and green tea because they have so much good antioxidant properties, especially if you're stressed. It really helps take out the negative impact of what that can do to at cellular level. But I always would have a cup of tea with some honey and I burn Palo Santo. I guess it's sort of ritualistic, bringing me into myself and my body and my space. But I love tea. Other people are coffee drinkers or soda or whatever. People drink alcohol. I don't even drink alcohol. I think it's a real warm and soothing thing. I just got a milk frother which is—
I actually bought a new one last week, it changed my life. (laughs)
it's amazing. I'm so excited because I feel like everything I make is better than Starbucks or anywhere that you could go.
PHOTO BY FRANK OCKENFELS
It’s the luxury factor.
Next level. So I've been making lattes with my teas. There's this one tea is called I Heart Tea. It's got cacao, peppermint and lavender. Really simple. I don't drink dairy, but I add oat milk and you do the latte. Over the holiday especially, it was unbelievable. Also the Brand New Tea, which is the one that has Yaupon. It has such an interesting story because Yaupon is the only caffeinated plant I think that's indigenous to the United States, particularly the Delta area in the south. It was used by the indigenous peoples during rituals. It's a very powerful tea and like I said it has similar properties to green tea. It's very much like an antioxidant. But when the colonizers came, they basically launched a smear campaign against it because they wanted tobacco to be the main crop. I don't want to get this wrong, but I feel like it's called Nux vomica or something like that. (laughs) They make it sound like it's gonna make you throw up and then people started thinking it was this bad thing. So it's having a comeback. I think even Whole Foods is now starting to carry Yaupon.
So this one has got Yaupon, turmeric, clove and cinnamon. Just all this stuff is so good for you in so many ways. And if you do a latte version of that, it's just unbelievable. Then the other one is called No Stress Zone, which is what I drink all the time.
Oh I definitely need that one the most.
Oh, it's so good. It's got this herb from Ethiopia called Koseret which actually is not popular here. Nobody's really drinking that here yet and it's hard to get.
Close-up of the new tea PHOTO COURTESY OF SANTIGOLD
I was in Memphis last October, and I met with a group there called Cxffee Black, and they get all of their coffee from Ethiopia. They're trying to bring back the ritual aspect of coffee. So that's why I decided to talk about tea because it’s also part of our cultural practice. So I think it's great that it's not just for a marketing tool or commodification. There's actual meaning behind it.
I think a big part of tea has always been community. It's a time to sit and actually have moments of connection. I recently had sort of an industry event hosted by my publishing company. It was supposed to be industry people. I was like, “Why don't we make this a tea party at an art gallery?” It ended up being the greatest because otherwise, it sounded super schmoozy and wack. It was actually at the Jeffrey Deitch gallery and they had an Rammellzee exhibit up. So you get to come and see this exhibit, drink all my teas and talk. It ended up being so much fun. All kinds of artists and people came and I was excited because everyone's talking about the tea the whole time. So I think that it's a ritual in a way that we don't even understand. If you go most places in the world, they offer you tea. Even England of all places, right?
It’s like a welcome. An extension of your hand.
I remember being a teenager and going to stay in a Bedouin village for a little while. Sitting on the floor and having tea, it's just everywhere that you go. Yeah, I'm really happy about it. The tea line’s also called Spirituals, It was an idea to have different sensory experiences of the album. Now it's becoming its own thing.
This conversation was warm and light for me. Is there anything else that you wanted to disclose or anything I didn't hit on?
I also just did a book deal. I'm sure they'll make the announcement soon. But it's for a memoir that I'm writing. It goes back four generations of women in my family, back to my great-grandmother and Mississippi in 1886, which is gonna be super interesting. I'm so excited about it. I've written a proposal and I've been already doing interviews about all the stuff that we've been talking about: generational trauma and progress. I love the idea of looking at these women as pioneers of futuristic Black women. Oten we look back, especially around Mississippi and racism from a deficit. Like, “Oh we've had to endure so much.” Well, we did, but also we were laying the foundation for what a futuristic feminist woman looked like. So just to write from this angle, it's just been so interesting and so exciting. It’s such a process of more self-exploration and healing, it's amazing.
Santigold’s Noble Champions podcast. PHOTO COURTESY OF SANTIGOLD
